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Friend.Chocoholic.Tantrum-thrower.Child.Woman.Whatever !!!!!!!!

with 27 comments

In reply to my previous post, Raven made the following comment beautifully written and very thoughtful comment:

“I understand the place of pain from which they come, though I don’t entirely agree with you.

A very wise man once said to me, “You become the thing you hate.” I think that’s one of the most awful parts about acts of extreme violence – beyond the death and the immediate
suffering – is that they suck us into the very evil which we so abhor.

Personally, I think violence begets violence. I don’t think killing discourages killing. Instead, I think it fuels the flames. Terrorists think of themselves as noble martyrs. Killing them feeds rather than deters such beliefs.
It seems to me that no matter how tempting and how temporarily it feels like you have gotten your own back, holding true to the law and the values of society is the best way to go.

Otherwise terrorism wins. More damage was done in my country in response to 9/11 than was done by the maniacs who flew into those buildings. In fear and anger we allowed our government to trash the very values they were allegedly defending. The terrorist just had to sit back and watch us destroy ourselves. The bombs are only the infection planted. The worst sickness came after in the world wide deaths justified in the name of defending ourselves against terrorism, in the acts of torture justified in the name of defending ourselves against terrorism and on and on and on.

My older sister was stabbed to death 20 years ago on October 2nd (Gandi’s birthday). For me – killing her killer would not heal anything. It wouldn’t bring her back. It would make me part of a kind of violence I know she would have hated.
I don’t want to let hate and anger consume me. I think the bad guys win when that happens. I don’t know what the answer is to terrorism but I don’t think joining in the killing is it. In the end – creepy and vile as they are – terrorists ARE human. Dealing with the injustices in all our societies, listening to one another seems a better response, though a much slower and less certain one – than killing.
That said – I’m understand your rage and you have expressed yourself with beautiful eloquence and passion.

I wish with my whole heart that this kind of insanity could be put to rest and that nobody anywhere ever had to feel such pain again.”

Raven, I had so much to say in reply that I had to write a post to do it justice.

Before I say anything in reply though, I’d just like to tell you a little where I (and most of my friends and people from my generation) come from. We come from a place where we learnt there are many religions, but when we played and fought and ate and cried together, we did so because we were friends and not because she was a Muslim, and I was a Hindu. One of my closest friends is a Muslims, she would always come attend the Saraswati Puja (Festival of the Goddess of Learning & Education) with me, and also place her books and pens at the feet of the Ma Saraswati for blessings. When she kept Ramzan, I would fast with her one day a week and celebrated Eid as well. I have celebrated Navroze (Parsi New Year) with my Parsi friend, and had langar (food prepared by the Gurudwara for people of all sects and communities) at the Gurudwara with my Sikh friend. We have celebrated Christmas and attended Midnight Mass , though none of us were Christians. For us, religions just meant that the God we pray to has different names.

People may argue that being from a defence background, I have been brought up in a more liberal manner. Maybe. I cannot argue on that since I don’t know anything different. People may argue, that had I been from a smaller town or from a more conservative background, I would have thought different. Maybe. But the point is that since I am not from a small town or from a conservative background, I don’t know anything different.
What I have seen is the communal riots in my country in 1992 over the Babri Masjid issue, the Gujarat riots in 2001, the blasts in the Mumbai trains in 2006, the blasts in different parts of India this year. What I have seen is the devastation caused by this – and this goes on both sides of the fence. I have read some of the Human Rights reports of the Gujarat riots, and what I read was horrifying. I couldn’t read them. I was horrified at the atrocities committed by both Hindus and Muslims in the name of religion. I condemn that totally as a human.
I have read the Bhagvad Gita (Holy Book of the Hindus), but not the Vedas and Puranas (other Holy Books). I have read a little of the Quran (Holy Book of the Muslims) and the Bible (Children’s Bible though). Nowhere have I read that killing another human being is justified because he belongs to a different religion or sect. I cannot believe that blowing up thousands of innocent people in the name of religion is justified.
Gandhiji said, when someone slaps on one cheek show him the other cheek. Then there is “An eye for an eye.”
They are both two extremes. Today if I showed my other cheek to someone, his hand would not fall in shame, it would only lift to slap me again. Neither do I believe that because you have planted a bomb and blown up people, therefore that gives me the right to blow you up as well. Then there would be no difference between me and them. I cannot become them, because I am not them.
9/11 was one incident in the US. people are stiff suffering because of what happened in that one incident. There have been innumerable such incidents in India. Today if we hear there has been a blast, we no longer display shock, we only ask “Now where?” This is the generation which I have grown up in. All I wonder is why. If these people have any issues with society and government, they should state that so that the same can be sorted out mutually. What is the point they are trying to make by planting bombs and then claiming responsibility for the death of so many? Why do they need to hide? If you are proud of what you have done, then have the balls to say so. Why hide like a rat in the ratholes? Why not tell everyone what is it that they are protesting against?
It is a very sad but true fact that most of the terrorists are Muslims. Today if I meet a Muslim, I will not be my usual self. I will hesitate and think a hundred times before giving any contact detail, even if it is in the line of work. I am not proud of that. I hate this feeling that a wall has sprung up between me and that other person because he is a Muslim. I have not been taught that, it is something I have learnt to survive in today’s India. This is not the kind of things I want to teach my children, but I would have to.
Killing your sister’s killer would not bring her back, but seeing him being brought to justice would certainly give her soul some peace. I lost my brother when I was 16 because of a buss accident. I had a fight with him that morning and however hard I try, the fact that I didn’t give him the usual “Good Morning” hug and a big cheery bye as he left the house will forever haunt me. There is nothing I can do about that. I cannot go trace the driver and run his bus over him. What would have however, helped is seeing the driver being brought to book.
Justice is every person’s right raven. I am a lawyer, I am an officer of the Court and I assist the Court in reaching its decision to do justice. Justice to me is not seeing any random person being shot to death by the police because they suspected him. Justice to me is giving the person a fair trial. The man behind the Parliament blasts was tried. But tell me, Raven what kind of students would have a full arsenal of pistols and AK 47 in their home. In this one incident, where the police killed some of the terrorists, as a citizen I support them. I support the fact they are doing the best they can in weeding out these elements of society and protecting me and my family. These people have wreaked enough havoc on other’s lives for no plausible rhyme or reason. They thought they were God’s army on earth. God needs no army to spread His message.
Raven, my rage was with the Human Rights people who are only trying to get publicity and media . They cry foul at this one incident. Why? Because people who were the cause of violent death of so many thousands of people died a violent death themselves? We need to speak to people in the language they understand. There is a saying in Hindi “Laaton ke bhoot baaton se nahi maante” which roughly translated means that people who only work with kicks, will never pay heed to mere words. And “an eye for an eye” is the only language which they would have understood. These people stopped being human a very longtime back. You and I are human because we cannot even dream of killing in the name of God.


Written by SupMM

September 27, 2008 at 4:55 am

Posted in Uncategorized

27 Responses

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  1. Hi,SMM..nice to be back here,after quite some time. The topic is a touchy one,I agree-religion.So much is said and done,a lot of it bad,in the name of religion.I totally agree-even when I was in school,we knew no such differences between Hindus and Muslims or any other faiths. It is only in the recent past that we see so much of violence in the name of religion,which,I feel is quite an irony,since religion is supposed to bind people and not divide them.Sigh!!


    September 27, 2008 at 7:00 am

  2. I think we all have a different opinions on that depending on where we from and what we ve been through. I don t think killing is a solution, but if it was my situation, somebody killing a member of my family, i don t know if i will be capable to not kill him.
    As for Religion, i don t really believe in anything for various reasons but Religion brought and is still bringing too much blood. People use the way they interpret a Religion to justify their acts. This interpretation is the biggest issue of the Religion.
    It was a great answer and reply from both of u.


    September 27, 2008 at 9:08 am

  3. Again you have written beautifully, with eloquence and passion and perfect logic.

    Again, while I understand and even agree, I still think that violence is fed by violence. For me, the history you have shared here is evidence of that. I have often talked with friends about the damage that growing up amidst constant violence does to the psyche and spirit of children who confront it.

    Using Israel as an example, people on both sides have now grown up and lived with constant violence. In the case of Israel, the violence of crazy terrorists is met with more intense supposedly “justified” violence that only makes young Arabs feel – legitimately in that case, I think – victimized. I don’t think that justifies terrorist acts – there can be no justification, but I do think it feeds them. I agree that it terrorism is cowardice and vile and evil and ugly and victimizes the innocent. It is incomprehensible to me that people want to kill each other. I just don’t get it.

    But I kind of digressed from what I was trying to say. I think that when young people grow up surrounded by violence it changes who they are. As we have now come to understand that child abuse changes the brain chemistry of the victim, I think violence changes the brain chemistry as well. What makes one person turn out to be a lawyer and another a terrorist, I don’t know.

    I have long thought that my country went on an absurd pity party after 9/11. Not that the bombings were not obscene and devastating, but we seem to have been willing to throw away all our principles based on one day of violence when people all over the world live with that kind of violence and worse on a daily or weekly basis.

    I don’t know enough about the underpinnings of the violence in India to say anything intelligent. We get lots of detailed (biased but detailed) news in this country about Israel, but only sketchy news about places like India and Pakistan.

    You are right that it is easy for me sitting here in my quiet little village in the middle of nowhere in the US to say “turn the other cheek.” I don’t have to do it. I just get to believe it in theory.

    With one exception, which is my experience of my sister’s murder. I did not want the boy who killed her to die. I was glad that he was caught and tried and is now in jail. I hope he doesn’t get out, though that is a possibility in 2013. His sentence was 25 years to life. Here are some things I have written on the subject of Carole’s murder, including a letter which I wrote to the person who stabbed her to death.

    I think you have to be where you are and feel what you feel. You are surrounded by this violence and I’m not. You live with that awful feeling of having your impulse for kindness and trust eroded by an equally strong impulse for self-preservation.

    I’m so sorry about your brother. To lose someone so young…

    I appreciate you taking the time and effort to respond to me in such depth and with such eloquence. I’m glad that I don’t have to face such relentless violence. I have enough trouble holding to my beliefs in the face of the maniacs who stole my country in a bloodless coup and have committed crime after crime in my name without punishment or even the threat of punishment. I think they are terrorists too and it is obscene to me that their kind of terrorism gets a pass while the desperate insanity of damaged souls gets used as justification for their acts. I think they are all evil.

    Sorry I am writing such a long treatise again. I empathize with your pain and your rage. My reaction to it isn’t so much about protecting terrorists as wishing I had a way to heal the wound they have left in your spirit. I don’t think violence will really do it. But that’s because it wouldn’t do it for me.

    In any case, I send prayers for peace and healing and an end to the need for fear and retribution. Peace be with you and all of us in this world.


    September 27, 2008 at 5:29 pm

  4. I really liked this post. Raven was eloquent ,and so were you in your reply. this morning when I read about a father-son dying in the bomb blasts in delhi, my blood boiled.But will I pick up a weapon, not likely. However with fewer people to maintain the balance between extremism and non-violence, is peace is becoming an arguable commodity.


    September 27, 2008 at 6:49 pm

  5. You say you can’t even dream of killing even in the name of God.
    Yet, you speak, rather type with such venom.
    Say if you had the slightest clue or a series of events that grew your suspicion as to whom the responsible party is to the blast,as in you knew the guilty party and you also knew they knew that you had lost someone dear to you because of them. And had comeover to your place so to grieve with you and to pray for the deceased soul’s solace.
    You would’nt think about it cause your HUMAN?
    You would’nt think about dying it yourself but rather point them out to the police. Yes, these folks i think they are behind it.
    If it makes me unhuman, then so be it. But the thought, rather even the execution could be a possibility.
    Folks, who dont care about other lives, they think they have an upper edge over others sensing they are above the law, know no fear idk. But, like you said sometimes you have to meet them in their playground, call their move and beat them in their own game.
    COz, Hey we have been playing our own game “We are not you, we are better then you”
    I dont know if it is right or wrong, I dont care what the Bhagvad Gita, Quran, Bible heck even the Scientoligists say once you call their bluff and come down to their level they aint got nothing left no more.
    Sometimes, Evil is Necessary.


    September 28, 2008 at 1:31 pm

  6. Beautiful post hun!and i so agree with whatever u hav written…tht its like u hav said wht i feel abt this issue. I dont hav words to say coz if i start writing here…i will need a post to do so.


    September 28, 2008 at 5:45 pm

  7. I read Raven’s comment and I somehow agree with him. From Violence, we cant resolve Violence.

    But this world is such, that it runs on PUNISHING criminals. Its a deterrent against further crime. And it works to an extent.

    And I also u’stand where SMM is coming from. There’s no other way to handle rabid dogs that go killing ppl than shoot em down.

    Cos not everyone in this world is SENSIBLE u see.



    September 29, 2008 at 3:21 am

  8. btw,

    ** I lost my brother when I was 16 because of a buss accident

    Im so sorry to hear that SMM. HUGS!

    Also, wut u said abt Muslims is true…Im not saying that EVERY muslim is like that (my best friend is a Muslim girl), but there’s something weird abt their teachings that makes me wonder if most muslims r BRAINWASHED. And it seems u cant even qn their religion w.o. them throwing hissy fits at us. ???



    September 29, 2008 at 3:26 am

  9. Hey Amit, welcome back. Long time no see. Yes religion is a touchy topic in the best of times, and now is certainly not the best of times. I maybe being very utopian and/ or naive, but I still fail to see why all this violence. They have an issue, they should come out and say it.


    September 29, 2008 at 4:25 am

  10. Hey Cess, that’s exactly what I’m saying. Mindless violence and killing is not a solution, it is the whole problem. That is stupid. Unfortunately, when people are bent on a path of destruction of others, there is going to be retaliation. Someone or the other will strike back in the only language which will be understood by the other side.

    Today people complain of discrimination, but they never stop and wonder why they are being discriminated against.


    September 29, 2008 at 4:35 am

  11. Raven, thanks.

    Mindless violence is never justified. Mindless killing of people is never justified. Killing someone in self defence is one issue, but simple bombing people in market places for no rhyme or reason can certainly not be justified. If the terrorists have an issue with somethihng, let them come out in the open and say it. Why don’t htye publish an open letter to the Government or whosoever they want to address in a newspaper? Why don’t they come on TV and say it?

    I fail to understand why people are being killed everyday because of them. There will be anger, and this is anger at what is happening in my country. We learnt to co-exist. Now that trust between religions is destroyed. Violence is always with a reason. But when people don’t understand the reason, there will be retaliation in the like manner n which they have been hurt. Then what will they do? This will only lead to more violence and maybe even communal riots. This is probably what the terrorists want – to destroy the fragile peace which we have finally reached after so many years.


    September 29, 2008 at 4:41 am

  12. oops Raven is a lady. My apologies to Raven for addressing her as ‘him’. So sorry!



    September 29, 2008 at 4:43 am

  13. Raven I just went through your letter to the DA, and all I can say is that you have said exactly what I want to say – only in a so much more articulate manner. Like you said,mindless killing without remorse deserves no understanding at all.

    And though I say it after so many years, but to lose you sister in such a brutal manner must have been a very tough time for you and your family


    September 29, 2008 at 4:55 am

  14. Anu, the whole point is that mindless killing and violence will only beget more violence and hatred. Today, though I haven’t lost any of my own family or friends(touchwood)yet, I never know when the inevitable may happen. This is may anger at the terrorists for bringing about such a situation, but I can only wonder at the anger of those who lost someone near and dear and they don’t even know why they died.


    September 29, 2008 at 4:57 am

  15. Keshi, mindless killing and violence can never be justified. And when people are bent on such a path, then the only way to end all this is to bring them to an end. In the name of humanity, I see no reason why they should be kept alive and fed on taxpayer’s money, when they killed those very same people for a cause that noone knows.

    I don’t say every single Muslim is a terrorist, but is also a fact that most of the terrorists are Muslims. That makes me wary when I meet a Muslim today, whether I want to be or not, whether I like it or not.

    And HUGS to you too Keshi 🙂


    September 29, 2008 at 5:00 am

  16. I agree SMM.

    **I don’t say every single Muslim is a terrorist, but is also a fact that most of the terrorists are Muslims.

    Thats exactly what alot of ppl believe, including myself. There must be a reason why that’s the case. I’d like some Muslim to explain that to me.

    Im religionless…I just follow teachings of the Buddha (and any other mentor that teaches harmless and peaceful living) that is a WAY OF LIFE…not a WAR upon each other for the heck of proving superiority which does not exist anyways! Im sick of this religious crap.



    September 29, 2008 at 5:10 am

  17. Hey well defended dear and i mus say u won thru.Though its not about winnin or loosin what we fail to defend is the spirit of bein together and rising to the occasion wen the situation demands. Kp writin….


    September 29, 2008 at 2:06 pm

  18. Blase that’s a really difficult question that you have raised and I’l try my best to answer it.

    If someone I know even attempted to harm my family, I don’t know what I’d do. I’d probably just kill him with my bare hands. I don’t know. It’s a tough question. Its very easy to sit back and say “Oh no, I would call the cops etc etc” or attempt to sort out stuff calmly blah blah blah. I’d like to believe that I can’t kill someone, but I know that dare someone harm my family I’d hunt that person down and kill him.

    Blase, that’s also a part that I’m worried about. This peace that we have has been achieved after a very long time. Mindles skilling has happened. Someone somewhere is going to hit back. Then what? Riots again?


    September 30, 2008 at 4:24 am

  19. Keshi, I’m a Hindu, but I’m not a very devout Hindu. I believe in God and celebrate my festivals, but I don’t go the temple everyday or even once a week or call priests over and feed them etc etc.

    if all this mindless violence continues, one day, people of other faiths are going to strike back and we’l have a WW III. Whatever it is that these terrorists are trying to prove, the entire point is lost. Today I meet a strnager I will be wary, and all the more if he is carryying a bag.

    A few days back I was in a lift with a few other people. There was one guy who was carrying a big black bag. Everyone as giving him funny looks, until he quietly set the bag on the floor and opened it up to show there were books and files in it. This is the kind of society we are living in now.


    September 30, 2008 at 4:28 am

  20. Hey Chaggoholic, welcome to my blog 🙂

    Thanks dude. Winning or losing is certainly not the point here, but unfortunately some people of a particular sect ave made it a “Them v. The rest” kind of a war. The rest of us will fight back. Noone is going to sit quite and watch his family and his home being blown up by faceless nameless cowards who don’t even know what is the cause that they’r fighting for


    September 30, 2008 at 4:30 am

  21. SMM Im like u too..not ‘religious’…I just hv a way of life and a set of standards in life. I make sure that I dun hurt others by my way of life. Thats the main thing.

    And ppl who always go to church, temple, mosque etc need to u’stand that too. Before u try to find God, find urself. Its not in any book or any set of rules…its right there in our Instincts.

    thats why the terrorists hide from the society n play dirty tricks…cos their INSTINCTS say to them that wut they’re doing is WRONG.

    U rock SMM, thats why I like ya!



    September 30, 2008 at 4:37 am

  22. Raven and smm: Both of you lost your siblings! My heart goes out to the both of you. Reading this post made me feel very sad.

    But smm I must say you have been very open about what you feel. I wholeheartedly fall in line with you. I just wish all this would stop. At moments when I am sitting quietly at home, reading newspapers and watching news, I feel so incredibly depressed.

    I know what you mean by saying that we have not been brought up to discriminate between different faiths. That is why I find it so difficult to believe that one’s faith can be made a scapegoat so.


    September 30, 2008 at 9:37 am

  23. You cannot condone violence, it just cant be done.

    People go along with their lives and are so engaged in their own livelihoods that one doesnt care and have time to bother about communal issues. Ok, so lets assume one is a laywer, would one not take businees with one just cause they belong to a different caste or because your political beliefs are different. I guess its safe to venture a few would still do, i few those who are restricted by their own thoughts. But, I’m sure or I hope that everyone else would not even consider such a trivial point. My point to you is there is no peace attained man, we are fine cause we all have are own busy lives. The only folks who arent fine with it have to be religious extremes on both sides..Some Maulvis…some Ram Sevaks..The RSS belives in Hindu Supremacy. All people whose lives are dependent upon the constant friction between the two groups. Case in point Governments..Guj Govt used it towards their advantage..the Pakistani Dictatorship needed constant sources of turmoil with their neighbours as only then would an Emergency and mostly an Army Coup was required and for most part they had to maintain this status quo.
    My point is no peace has ever sustained over a long time, (there are momentary lapses) between the two communities, the old ghost always visits again. Peace however important will always remain miniscule, because there are other parasites in the system where their livelihoods are existing only because of the current case of chaos. There isnt much as normal citizens one can do to control it, the imp thing is to understand this is a part of our lives now.
    One simply cant just move on everytime, one cant just look away. Can we? Will we? Hell no.

    I am not saying kill those bastards who have been either brainwished or a product of our indian society. Face it as we grow older, our inclinations however vague turn stronger. If someone thinks they can destroy my house, hurt my family and get away with it, think again.

    BTW, if some Bosnian didnt kill the Archduke of Austria then WW I would not have taken place.

    If Hitler, Mussollinni wernt too keen on world domination then WW II would not have taken place.

    History tells us be it greed, lust, or just plain boredom wars will happen.
    One can learn and observe from history, WW II had it’s rewards as well. Ever since no country has thought about world domination as Germany before.(Wait, unless you are the United States of America Being represented by both the George’s)

    I rather fight once, twice, thrice and get it over with rather than live in constant terror of some cowards who think they are serving god.

    If this cumulates into a riot, WW III so be it.

    Game on.


    September 30, 2008 at 9:40 pm

  24. hey SMM just checkin on ya 🙂 Hope all is well with ya. TC!



    October 2, 2008 at 7:10 am

  25. hey keshi, thanks. me doing fine. been busy with work since I’m on leave for the whole of next week.

    Yup I totally agree, the terrorists know that what they are doing is wrong and that’s why they are hiding.Nobody will go to heaven ever by causing the death of so many innocent people


    October 3, 2008 at 1:30 pm

  26. Hey AB, welcome to my blog. Hope to cya around more often now 🙂

    AB, I may sound very naive and utopian when I say that we have co existed for so many years. Then why all this bloodshed now? And what is the point that they are trying to prove with all this? They are only segregating themselves and the rest of their Islamic family from the rest of us Indians. Terrorism can never serve any purpose. Neither does one gain any glory by causing the death of so many innocent people.


    October 3, 2008 at 1:33 pm

  27. Blase, that’s exactly what I am worried about. India has only now started on the path of being an economic power (and not only ont he strength of the markets that its sizable populations offers). We really do not need this. We don’t need any more riots frankly. Two Hindu boys on a bike can drop a molotiv cocktail in a Muslim dominated area and set of another whole round of riots. people have not yet recovered from the scars of the 1992 and Gujarat riots.

    Tday what we need is peace. easy enough for you and me to say. However we need everyone else also cooperating with us.

    But yes I agree if someone dare threaten my family i will take a hacksaw and hack him down – and I don’t give a damn whether that person is a Hindu or a Muslim.


    October 3, 2008 at 1:38 pm

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